Serious posts call for serious cheese. Warm brie with a pear compote and baguettes.
Babies. They are on my mind. A friend just gave birth last week to her first. Another friend is due with her second in a few weeks. MIL read Chris the riot act, telling him we are financially stable, have a large enough home and we are selfish if we don't allow her a grandchild. A grandchild is "her right."
Growing up, I always assumed I'd get married and have children. I never was around children that much when I began to get older. I was the youngest grandchild, and all the great grandchildren lived farther away or we just weren't close. I was also my parent's youngest child and all the family friends were past the age of having more children. I babysat sometimes for a job. I hated it. I liked the freedom of babysitting, but never was able to get into playing with the kids.
MIL is right, all the reasons we put off having kids in our early twenties are behind us now. However, we just went though a really rocky period and some mental health issues stemming from Chris's stressful job. Repairing our emotions and being really self aware of our behaviors have been our primary goal lately. It's not an easy, short path.
However, things ARE getting better. Maybe now WOULD be a good time to have children. But I still don't feel the desire. I like babies well enough. I never really get that yearning thing going on, but I do enjoy babies. It's the 1-8 year old phase I REALLY have trouble with. I DREAD spending more than a few days with children of this age. It's not the kids fault. I just have very little patience for things like squeeling, repeating things, nonsensical things and messy things. And it's not like I'm a stuffy prude. I just have some emotional issue with all that. By 9, it's usually getting to a point where I can find commonalities with kids and have a better relationship with them. Still not great, but better.
I've always thought maybe adoption would be good. And I have always thought controling children's behaviors (like those that bug me above) are easier when there is only one child. Chris was never in favor of either of those things and HE isn't feeling the need to have a child, either.
So I don't know. Maybe it's time to revisit all this with Chris. None of this would be entering my mind if MIL weren't so pushy about it. I understand HER yearning, but I'm not willing to do it just for her. THAT is selfish of her. I don't care if she spent half her life raising her children. That doesn't mean I have an obligation.
So this is what's seriously weighing on my mind right now. I don't know if I'm looking for advice or just wanted to get this out and organize my thoughts, but anything you have to say is appreciated. Just please try not to directly call me a selfish pig. Find nicer words.
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This blog is a collection of things on my mind. Could be serious, could be rambling idiocy. I invite you all to read, debate, ridicule, *whack*, and even give me a little love.
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37 comments:
*HUGS*
That is so unfair of your MIL. Wouldn't you just love to look her in the face and say "piss off"?
You have a good head on your shoulders Kim. You seem to know what you want and when there are issues that need to be dealt with, you tackle them head on.
If Chris is dead set against having a child, then if you did have one, you may be saddles with all of the responsibilities which would drain you I'm sure.
Don't let anyone pressure you into doing something you aren't ready for.
Buy your MIL a cabbage patch doll.
The MIL can always get a high maintenance puppy to lavish her attentions on.
When I had my first child I did it because it was what you were supposed to do. Like you, I was the youngest in my family and I never did much baby-sitting so I was quite child/baby ignorant.
That said, I fell in love on the delivery table. I just can't describe how total and irreversable that emotion was! Very lovely.
My older sister chose to not have kids and has never seriously regretted it. (She spent a year of self-doubt when she was 36 or 37 or so but then went with her Plan A - no kids.
The biggest difference between her and me (at this point) is that I have invested huge amounts of money in raising & educating my kids. She has far more very good friends than I do in part because she has always had the time to invest in these relationships. Parenthood is a huge allocation of time!
Eight to ten is my favorite age for kids. They are bright, idealistic and capable of imagining and discussing just about anything! After that teenage angst sets in and you just want to kill them.
My only advice would be that if your partner really wants kids where can he get them from but you? Did you have pre-marriage agreement about kids? If you did not then it's a reasonable expectation on his part that children are part of the package. At least that's what I think.
Thanks you two. Hearing from friends really helps.
Chris and I went into the marriage assuming we'd have kids when the time was right. Then we both agreed that we didn't really want to have children. Now, I'm just feeling a lot of pressure and am not sure what to do or how to feel.
Don't let her or anyone pressure you into having a child. You don't HAVE to have one. You don't.
You and Chris will know if and when the time is right to have a child... and that may be never. That's yours and Chris's choice, and your choice only.
If she wants a grandchild so bad, find an adopt a grandmother/child program in her area. It's set up kind of like Big Brothers/Big Sisters.
Agree with the other peeps. Don't let anyone pressure you into it. Our family was trying to pressure us and I am soooo glad that we did not give in to that pressure.
*hugs*
Having babies is weird. I'm not a kid person either and never have been. I'm not the "fun uncle" who always plays with the kids.
DW got pregnant accidentally. We weren't certain about having kids. I think there are MANY people like you (and me) who would NEVER feel ready to have kids.
I can say this with near certainty. Your aversion to young kids may never change, but it almost certainly won't apply to your own.
So many people just plop out kids with no thought or care at all. My guess is that those like you who put the most thought and care into the decision of whether to have kids would probably make really good parents.
Such interesting and diverse perspectives here.
I think you are right, MTW. Although I have those feelings about not enjoying kids in their younger years, I am sure I'd still enjoy my own. However, I fear I'd be a tyrant mother trying to whip their manners into shape. I don't want to be that horrid mother.
In reflection, I never even wanted to be a kid. I was always in a hurry to grow up. So, I don't even think I could stand myself at times. :-)
What I was trying to say above is that I fear not letting a child be a child. I fear I'd be forcing/expecting them to act like an adult at a very young age.
Kim, first of all, I disagree with Breezy. I think chance are good you WON'T know when the time is right. Meaning, the time COULD be right; you just won't know it. Not meaning the time will EVER be right, just that you really may not know.
Being a tyrant mother is a good thing, IMHO. Teaching kids proper behavior seems to have gone by the wayside, much to the detriment of our society. The world needs more strong mothers who understand the BIG PICTURE value a child (and society) receives by having a mommy who teaches them manners and appropriate behavior. It isn't fun to do and it won't make you feel good to be that way, but your kids will benefit, and in the long run they'll know it was YOU who made them what they are.
Without reading any other comments...
Honestly, it would be more selfish and detrimental to all involved to have a child you don't truly want just for the sake of having one. I know you'd love it and take care of it as much as humanly possible. That's not the point. Some people just aren't geared to be parents, no matter what the reason. And if you know (and Chris agrees) that deep down you'd rather be an aunt or friend than a parent, that's okay. In fact, if that's what is really what you want, there is nothing selfish about it.
To play devil's advocate however...what if next month you found out you were pregnant because your birth control failed? Would you honestly be okay? Would you be happy? Or would it begin a lifetime of resentment because you didn't plan it and didn't really want to deal with it?
*smooch*
Only you and Chris know what is best for your family. And regardless of the MIL, you have to do what is right for you two.
Okay, now I've read what the others have to say. I'm with Nookie and Breezy. Buy MIL a Cabbage Patch doll or set her up with an adopt a grandparent program.
And honestly, you are the type of person to think a bit too much. You can't help but let a child be a child in many respects. And seeing the world thru their eyes gives life a whole new meaning. On the other hand, there is absolutely nothing wrong with expecting the best from your kid(s) in regards to manners and behaviors. You don't always get what you want, but the child knows the limits and is disciplined when they go past the acceptable level.
A long time ago, I figured out the whole parenting gig - relax a bit, take lots of deep breaths, look beyond the every day mess, see the world thru their eyes and teach them to the best of your ability.
I agree with all Momma said. (and not just because she agreed with me)
If you fear being a parent, then you need to look inside and see if you really want children. Because? No one thinks they'll be a good parent, but lots of them are.
But. If you just plain don't want a child now or maybe ever, then that is fine. I really don't get the selfish part. It's not selfish to not want a child. I call it being an informed responsible adult.
Oh and if after you and Chris talk and if the decision is to not have a child. Then I would suggest Chris get snipped. *evil grin* sorry Chris. Actually the procedure is very non-evasive, they do it right at the dr's office and send you home with a bag of frozen peas. Plus. His snippage is a lot easier to reverse then your's would be if 10 years down the road you both change your mind.
*smooch*
Mmm, frozen peas!
*considers snippage*
As I said, I really value the unique perspective each of you brings. It's really essential for me to hear all the opinions.
I think I am more like MTW in the parent-thinking, but I super admire Breezy & Momma (which I said in a post on one of their blogs the other day). Obviously Nookie and Swami have other really unique situations and I admire both of them for having such balanced viewpoints.
I guess that puts Bravie and I as the "childless by choice" (well, sort of...that whole lesbian thing puts a more unique spin on the having a child issue) ones here.
And yes, momma, I think too much for my own good. :-)
I'm in Knoxville waiting for DH to finish with his interview so I'd thought I'd answer as I am probably the closest to your situation.
Every once in a while I have what we call a 'tock'. Meaning my biological clock made a sound. Things like seeing the matriarch of a family shopping for Memorial Day weekend when all of her kids and grandkids are coming to visit. Well, if I don't have kids, I won't have that and it leads to a bit of sadness. Just a couple days ago, I watched a mother, father and their 3-4 year old daughter going out to eat and they just seemed so happy! Again, I felt as though I was missing out on something.
For me though, it ALWAYS passes which leads me to believe that I should stick to my decision. And it is that. DH told me if I *really* wanted a child he would be on board with just one. If not, that was fine with him too.
Please don't let your MIL coerce you into something you are not ready for.
*hugs* I know how tough this is. It weighs on my mind a great deal as well.
First off if anyone was telling me to give them a grandchild I just might not do it out of spite.
One key to how you feel is where you say you always "assumed you would get married and have children." Assumed is very different from want.
It's definately something that you and Chris should talk about. No decision needs to be made but it would be helpful to be on the same page at the same time. Or at the very least aware of how the other feels at this point right now.
I have always felt bad for those that don't want children but are pressured to have them just as much as those that really want children but are unable to.
Oh and believe it or not I am not a "kid" person either. It is very different when they are your own.
I enjoy the chaos it brings and the love and craziness. But I've always been that way. Would living like that bother you?
AS far as worrying about disciplining them that really should not be on your mind now right?
Lastly no matter what your decision is it certainly is not selfish.
Oh one more thing. Why adoption instead of having your own if I may ask?
Certainly nothing wrong with it but I wonder if maybe you are more wary of the actual pregnancy thing itself rather than what you end up with? I'm asking also because of your question on OT too.
I have a friend who is terrified of actually being pregnant but they are also on the fence about actually having any.
Oh my. I am responding without reading everyone else's thoughts as I want this to come directly from the heart with no editing.
I could've written this myself - except for the part about the MIL. Neither of our moms think we are remotely capable of raising children. And, when I was looking for a lifemate I made absolutely sure I found someone of likemind. I had many longterm relationships that were headed to the alter until the quesiotn of kids came up - as it should before you get married. I've left men that I have been absolutely in love with because of this small detail.
I make no bones about the discussion Carlos and I had if an "accident" came along. We both agreed wholeheartedly abortion would be the only way.
My mom has never pushed me simply because I knew since I was 12 that I didn't want them. And she already has 5 grandsons.
Does your MIL have any other incubators that can pop out some grandkids for her? Can she maybe buy them at Walmart? Don't mean to be nasty about your MIL as I don't know the woman but calling you selfish? She needs to look in the mirror and figure out who the selfish one is here.
I have been berated for years for not wanting to have children, right down to the guy who owned the corner greek food takeaway joint.
The way I see it, Kim, is it would be selfish of you to bring a child into this world on the sole basis of keeping up appearances for society's sake. I pity any kid that would be born to me out of a sheer sense of societal obligation. Making sure I'm seen out in public, performing my duty, then ignoring the poor thing by putting him in a drawer until the next time I can show him off to the world.
Sorry, but this really hits a nerve with me.
You do what's right for you and Chris and everybody else can shut the fuck up.
Just my .02
I actually have no issue with being pregnant. I do have a gnawing issue with all the children without families. But then again, I don't have the cash for adoption. And I'd really want to try and adopt in the U.S. I'd feel weird about yanking a kid from it's roots.
You are right, I shouldn't worry about discipline at this point! I should focus on do I/don't I want to have a child more!
And zombs, I abhor chaos and overly packed schedules. I also think it's the second time I've used abhor this week without being sure it's spelled right.
Tkit, I can really relate. Sigh. There isn't an easy answer, is there?
You should totally have kids, and while you're at it, have a couple for too, k?
Thx
Bob
You said you like it, so guess what, I'm going to talk about myself again. :)
But not before saying two things.
1.) You are not selfish. Not in any way. Don't let anyone make you feel that way.
2.) You have time. You really do. I know, 30 is one of those numbers and compounded by the MIL's pressure it can be really hard not to think about a ticking clock.
Okay, back to me.
I cruised past 30 four years ago and felt a lot like you do. I have in-laws who were masterful at applying pressure. Mr Fro's younger brother and sister each have kids. I remember one time I was holding my nephew, and my father in law said, "Isn't that better than flying around all over the world?" As if it were me, alone, denying him more grandchildren. More blantantly, whenever we'd leave their house my FIL would yell out after us, "Bye, see you soon, have a baby!"
(It suddenly stopped. I don't know how, but I suspect that somebody thought that I had a medical problem and couldn't have children. Not true in the slightest, but I was glad for the wrong assumption.)
Mr Fro and I went through a rocky patch. Heck, forget rocky, it was downright bad. A lot of it stemmed from each of us having expectations the other wasn't meeting, and neither of us bothered to actually tell the other what those expectations were. I was gone a lot, Mr. Fro hated it. We got to a very bad point - a real fork in the road. I'm glad we stuck it out, but it really could have gone either way.
That rocky patch gave us a lot of reason to put off having kids. Once you have a kid, you're attached to that other person for life. Sure, you can legally divorce but you still have to be in each other's lives. I'd be lying to you if I didn't tell you that one of my first thoughts when I did get pregnant was, "Ok, I guess I'm really stuck with him now."
(Things weren't rocky anymore when I got pregnant - they were actually pretty good - but that little thought popped in there anyway.)
I've blogged about it before, but I have a good, established career where I'm pretty important and I feel good about what I've accomplished. But with a child, I can't keep my same position. So that was hard for me.
I worried about renting my body out to a little alien for 9 months. Weight gain, food and alcohol restrictions, wonky hormones, etc. etc. etc - not appealing.
A while back, I was late. I didn't think there could be any way I could be pregnant, and I've been known to get wacky cycles during stressful times before. But, my period was nowhere to be seen around day 38, so I bought a stick and peed on it. I read the little pamphlet about the product while waiting thre three minutes, and in the back of my head tried to remember if there had been any 'dangerous activity' during the past month that might have gotten me pg. Three minutes were up - I looked at the stick.
Not Pregnant.
In that moment, the first thing I felt was this tiny pang of disappointment. A moment later, the relief set in, and I went on my merry way, but it was an interesting feeling. I didn't realize until then that I could possibly be ready to have a kid - if you'd asked me three minutes earlier I'd have said NO way.
Fast forward about a year and a half. Same scenario. Late. Didn't think it was possible. Chalked it up to stress and jet lag from my recent trip to Brazil (where I drank a lot, oops.) Peed on the stick.
You know the rest.
The thing is - you may never feel a 'yearning' or a real readiness. I'm not sure everyone does. If you over-think it you'll certainly never be ready, because honestly, it's a really scary prospect when you really get down to it. If everyone analyzed and waited until they were 100% sure they were ready, very few people would have kids.
Just make sure you are on the same page as Chris about it. Nothing made me realize how much I needed to communicate with Mr. Fro as having a kid, and it would be 1000 times harder if he weren't totally head-over-heels for her, and 100% willing to help out with her care.
I hope all of that made sense. I had to get up 3 times while typing it to wipe someone's tiny ass. I still managed to be long-winded. Sheesh.
ab·hor (āb-hôr')
To regard with horror or loathing; detest.
Kim you use the word "selfish" as if it's a bad thing. I think being selfish is absolutely essential a lot of the time, and this is one of those times. You are *NOT* a pig, unselfish or not. ;)
Good lord. I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was that long. I just wordbarfed all over your blog.
*cleans up*
*slinks out*
I like the word "wordbarf". Frodis is so cute.
I've read what everyone had to say and I certainly agree with the consensus that you shouldn't have kids to please anyone but yourselves.
DH and I waited 4 years after we were married to start having kids and it always bugged me when people would ask "When are you going to start a family?" I always wanted to tell them that we were considering having frequent unprotected sex, but hadn't quite gotten around to it.
I'm not really a kid person either. Honestly. But other people's kids are different from your own. *My* kids are great.
Anyway, would you spend $1 million on a toy for someone else to play with on weekends? 'Cause that's kinda what MIL is asking you to do.
Good luck being tactful! *hugs*
Number 1: You are NOT selfish!
Number 2: Your MIL is.
I completely understand where you are coming from. Dwight and I have been married for almost 3 years now, and people have been pestering us since our wedding reception about when we'd be having kids. I've so far refrained from telling them to f--- off, but it's been a strain. :-) The biggest pests, unfortunately, are our coworkers. Our school system is like a baby factory. At least two of our coworkers pop out babies each year. The year we were married, SIX people we work with had babies. So, other coworkers cannot seem to understand why Dwight and I haven't hopped aboard the maternity express.
Like you though, we just know we're not ready right now. I definitely have the desire for kids, and seeing Dwight interact with our friends' children has shown me he'll be a good father, but financially, I'm not sure we're ready. Of course, many people have told me that you're never financially ready for kids!
It's probably not a bad idea for you and Chris to have a talk...kind of a state of the union to see where you stand now compared to where you stood a few years ago.
And I do love Nookie's idea of buying MIL a cabbage patch doll!
*glides into blog on too-small skates*
*gives the cheesehaed a big, wet garlicky smooch – with tongue!*
*skates off to next blog, giggling like a maniac*
Ack!
I read through the responses and agree with what most people have said.
To sum up my opinion:
Your MIL is the selfish one.
You may think you are financially ready, but are you factoring in:
Furniture
Clothing
Diapers
Doctors
Medicine
Formula
Child Care
Everything changes. The "freedom" goes away. There are sleepless nights, very little sleep nights, having to take days off for a sick child (this can burn through the nicest stash of vacation/sick days).
I am glad things are better with Chris. But throwing the stress of a pregnancy, delivery, baby, etc. into that mix could change that all again.
It's hard to compare how you would feel about your own child basing it on how you feel about other people's children because it really is different when it's your child. My husband is a shining example of that.
Having said all of that, I could not imagine life without Conner. Every day is better than the one before. We bond, and we relate. It's amazing and surprising how many commonalities you can have with them at that young age.
*hugs and smooches*
Oh, and selfish is me asking you NOT to get pregnant until at least after August.
So many terrific responses here.
One last comment from me. Well, maybe too.
#1 The couple must have a solid relationship and want the same thing. Most important thing of all.
#2 Sometimes, you shouldn't overthink things. Sometimes things happen and the choice of having children is taken away from you. I waited too long then the choice was taken away from me.
Thank you to everyone who shared really personal stories. Frodis, you were really candid about your feelings and I can relate to it a lot. Selfishly, I'm so glad you had Lauren for us to coo at. :-)
Boo-I know you are right. If it was my own child, 99% of what I said would be thrown out the window. I'd be madly in love with the kiddo and probably lax at discipline. Don't worry, there will DEFINITELY not be a baby in the making prior to the walk. :-)
Nookster, I always feel a little selfish and sad talking about not wanting babies around you. I know it's a stressful subject.
Luna-It's so sweet to hear that Dwight is good with kids. Chris is great with that 7 & older age, but freaks out around babies. :-)
Kim, please don't ever feel that way around me. Please. I never EVER think peeps who aren't sure they want children, or those who are sure, as selfish people at all. I'm going to blog about my thoughts and experience one of these days.
Kim, you've gotten a lot of good advice here, and I hesitated to post anything because this *is* such a personal issue, and only needs to be decided by you and Chris. But I did want to say one thing. Others have said you will feel differently if it was your own child. This is not necessarily true. I'm not saying that you wouldn't feel differently, but some people find out after the fact that they are just not meant to be parents.
As far as the MIL calling you selfish and saying a grandchild is "her right", HTH does she figure that? I fail to see how anyone is owed grandchildren.
But that's just my 2-cents.
I really wanted to say more, but I'm not comfortable putting it out there on anyone's blog.
You're not selfish at all. Newp. Not even close. "Her right?!" *boggle*
Whatever you and Chris decide that you want for yourselves and your future is the right thing. You are an intelligent, caring and thoughtful person and I know you will do what is best for you.
*hugs*
(Alternate post: Yeah, what they said. *points up*)
Wow! I'm late to the party. You've gotten some wonderful advice and thoughts.
You do what you feel is right for YOU!
I love my kids, but there are days when I'd like them to walk out the door! (my 10yo does this, but always comes home!)
If someone asks you when you are going to have children again - just say - How about Thursday??
I don't have anything to add because everyone has already said it. You and Chris are smart and will know what is right for you. MIL needs a dog.
That is all. :)
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