Deep End Delight: Salami Cheese. I've never decided if I like the stuff or not. It's mild colby or cheddar with bits of salami in it, if you've never had the chance to try.
Anyway, all this deep talk lately has inspired me to post about my belief system.
I think one reason I tend to be tollerant of other's beliefs is because my current beliefs are quite different than those I grew up with.
My parents were closet racists. Every once in awhile, the N word would slip out. They grew up in Peoria IL and had my oldest sister when school integration was happening. The didn't want her to go to an integrated school with so many "Ns."
So they picked up the family and moved to a tiny Wisconsin farming community. I recall one black/African American family in our town. Everybody knew & liked them. It was pretty clear though, that us girls should never bring home anything but a white boy. We didn't directly talk about it, but they'd tell stories of old family friends having daughters that married "some Mexican" or other ethnicity.
But it was the 90s & I had MTV and Rolling Stone. I thought different was cool. Hip Hop was popular, homosexuality and AIDS were the big social issue and I considered myself very accepting of all cultures/sexual orientations, etc. Ironically, to my knowledge, I never met a homosexual person and had VERY limited contact with any person from a non-white background. Finally, at 16, I started to gain more exposure as I traveled to Washington D.C. and even around the state independently.
I finally had enough experience to challenge my dad on some of his sterotypes and I think he realizes it's not cool to say that stuff around me, or others, even if I didn't change his beliefs.
I went through a time when I think I became a little more racist inside. I was spending a lot of time in Milwaukee. I noticed my line of thinking was changing...assuming black poor didn't care enough to have jobs...that we all have the same opportunity, etc. Through some college courses and just growing up, becoming more aware of the realities of life, I realized I can't just look at those issues based on race. It's largely a socio-economic.
And then there is politics. My mother was Republican and my father was a democrat. I don't recall them talking about it, at least in front of us. My father was a high school grad & mom was a high school drop out. High brow conversations weren't the norm and we didn't live in an area that was obviously effected by the economy unless it had to do with farming. The only political education I received was from tv, newspapers and a few high school courses.
I always identified more with my mother's life and therefore always assumed the Republican side was the right side for me. I identified reasons why, but they were naive and not based on real experience. When I became an age where I was directly impacted by many policies and through college and working for state government, I became much more educated and aware of how policies effect everyone. I find myself more candidate stance/issue oriented than identifying with any party now.
And religion....My mother was a non-practicing Methodist & my father's family was strictly Catholic. Until I was about 10, we went to a large Catholic church most Sunday's and had Sunday dinner at my paternal grandmother's house. I was never taught much about my religion, although I went to CCD classes and had my first communion. The only thing that sticks with me is learning about The Good Samaritan and learning my Hail Mary's and The Lord's Prayer. Well, and standing up & kneeling a lot in church. And the monotone, yet bellering Father during services. At about 10 years old, I recall my father and his mother having a falling out, but didn't know about what. We quit going to church.
I grew up religiously ignorant. I went to some youth group activities and a few church services with a teenage friend, so got to see another religion at work. However, I really didn't understand it all. In college I examined a few other religions loosely (often in culture based courses). Then I married into a family of Methodist ministers. I studied up a little bit. I found the bible to be a good story, with some consistencies over cultures and other religions, but don't buy into it. After some soul searching and self-education, I've discovered I'm agnostic. I haven't told Chris's family, but Chris knows. I'm certainly not the most educated on the subject, so can't call anyone else's beliefs in their higher power ridiculous. The only thing I feel strongly about is that the Bible was not meant to be taken literally.
In short (ha), I think my family, generation and physical location shaped so much of who I was and see how similar circumstances can color others opinions & beliefs. I can only hope I'll continue to learn & grow, and hope others have that same stance.
Friday, February 24, 2006
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Well, being raised (for the greater part of my life) in the San Francisco Bay Area, I have no choice but accept diversity. I mean, I do have a choice but not really.
You have no idea how many different races, religions, lifestyles there can be in a one block radius. I live in a townhouse complex and at one time there were four openly gay couples, two Chinese families, one Mexican family and two white families just along my row. That's pretty much how the entire Bay Area goes.
Neither of my parents are racist nor bigots. My Mother is a democrat and my Father is a republican. Politics have always been discussed in our house from as far back as I can remember.
We grew up with no religious background. My Mom's side of the family is from the south so they are pretty religious. My Dad's side, nope, not so much.
Good, one person read this. I have a feeling, due to the lengthy nature of my post, it will be a slow day in cheeseland. :-)
Heh. It seems to be slow out there anyhow. In all of blogland and OT.
So I noticed. How am I supposed to waste my Friday? Geeesh.
Pretend to be sick and go home and play for the rest of the day.
I'm even having trouble just getting on the boards. They have been terribly slow the last couple of days.
I noticed that on SB, too. Today they seem better...so far.
It has been quite slow, hasn't it?
This is a deep post for a Friday. But thank-you for sharing. I grew up pretty intolerant myself. We were raised in a church that's a bit like Baptists, called Associated Gospel. I know my Bible verses and stories very well, even now.
I've always enjoyed mythology. One day I was reading a story and thought to myself "I can't believe people ever believed something this silly" and then I thought about that a bit more. And applied that thought to my religion.
It's been a long slog, but I've decided that I'm a Deist for now. There is a god, but it's finished with us and has moved on. If I think on it a bit more, I'll probably be atheist. But I've never met and atheist that wasn't really rude to people of faith, so I don't want to identify with them just yet.
Most of the athiests that I know are scientists. And that makes sense. Scientist need that hard core proof of things and it is rather hard to scientifically prove that God exists. I find some of them to be rude about religion just because they believe that science is the only answer and we all know that science and religion don't mix well. A good frind of our family is an athiest but he is very respectful about it.
I spoke too soon about SB. Now it's loading slow.
I was just acosted at lunch.
So a brash ex-coworker, B, sells Mary Kay. Back when I was 19, I had signed up to sell from someone just to get cheap products for me and my friends. I eventually found other products that worked WAY better for me, most of them at a lesser cost. I told B that & the next year she started selling. Said I could get products at cost from her. I bought a few things from her, but she keeps pestering a small ex-coworker group of us to have parties, come to a marketing seminar or let her do a demo on us at lunch kind of thing. It's always "I'm in a competition, can you help me out?"
It's people like her (and the current five other people wanting me to buy Mary Kay from them) that give direct sales a bad name. I sell TS, but am NOT pushy at all. And I never will be. That's not for me. But it is unfortunate that direct sales has a stigma and I believe Mary Kay is responsible for 75% of that. Other companies just don't seem as pushy. I know it's often just the sales rep, but IMHO, after experiencing the company first hand, they push "pushy" on their reps.
/end rant, hoping nobody here sells Mary Kay.
What's TS?
Tastefully Simple (gourmet style food products). It takes too long to spell out. :-)
I'm blonde. I need things spelled out for me. I'm not super bright but I have a lot of charm. :)
Tastefully Simple.
http://www.tastefullysimple.com/
I so am dying to eat at their house.
Look at me getting all Mary Kay (i.e. pushy) in your blog and answering for you. *grin*
*snort* at tkit's use of Mary Kay as an adjective. :-)
Hey, my response was supposed to be below Tkit's.
My mother used to sell Mary Kay. She didn't like having to be all pushy. She used to say that the meetings were cultish.
She ended up quitting and selling Avon instead. That was fun, because we got to help put stuff in bags. I'd get a handful of those little free sample lipsticks to put in the orders.
Carey: you're right about the hard proof and I realise that I'm overgeneralising. I like things to fit into a pattern. It's something I work on.
I'm not a scientist but that line of thinking runs in my family. I'm one of those who likes cold hard proof too. I'm very on the fence about the exitance of God.
Come on, everyone be agnostic with me. You know you want to. :-)
Seana, I think Avon would be fun to sell. It seems very low key.
And since it's kind of turning into Blogland OT today, I'd like to thank Orville Redenbacher for making Smart Pop! Kettle Korn. It's totally fixing my snacky mood right now.
Kim,
I think I was raised alot like you. Since I have gotten older I have had to learn a lot of things on my own. I'm glad I did. It made me form my own opinion instead of taking my parents views.
Have a good weekend!
Sonya, I think we all need to go have cocktails after all this deep end stuff, don't you?
Carey's not a scientist? Who'dathunk?
*ducks*
I was raised by an Irish Catholic Republican mother and a German Protestant Democrat father. I identify more closely with the Democratic party, but wouldn't say I am a democrat, per se.
As far as religion, I hold strong moral values from my upbringing, but don't identify with any chruch or other organised religion.
I am married to a Jewish husband.
My kids? are probably all mixed up! *grin*
Kim, you and I couldn't have been brought up more differently. My parents were very liberal, and not at all racist. Just the opposite, always went out of the way to embrace people of other racial and ethnic backgrounds. My dad was an athiest, with almost contempt for people of faith. As much as I love and respect him - and I think he is a great man - I think he is completely ignorant in this regard.
My daughters grew up in a completely racially integrated environment. Until they became more aware of *society's* obsession with race, I don't think the color of their friends' skin was ever thought of any differently than eye color or hair color would be. Their school is a complete melting pot. Asian, Hispanic, white, black, and many, many mixtures in between.
As far as race goes, I think the problem would go away much faster if race as an issue was ignired rather than focused on. Maybe it's because of where I live. I don't even know anyone I would truly call a racist.
I was raised by an agnostic mother and an aetheist father, in a little all-white mostly Anglican town in Canada.
My mom was a perfect, caring and non-strident liberal. Dad was a closet racist; I remember being stunned when I suddenly figured that out at about age 13 or 14 because he was never obvious about it. Altho aetheism was more important to him than race, lol.
There was one Jamaican family in town who had a daughter in my grade. She was my friend at various times during elementary school and was routinely invited to all my birthday parties--I don't remember thinking of her any differently. She was never my best friend but then I only had about 3 best friends during those years. In retrospect, I can see now that some kids did treat her differently but at the time I did not have enough perspective to see past the end of my own nose.
I guess I am an agnostic with aetheistic leanings. I understand proof but I don't feel faith. Or Faith--whatever.
Sorry to be late to the party. I would have enjoyed reading and commenting on this when the cheese was still fresh, but I had a high fever and such bad chills that I could not stop shaking.
Anyway, I grew up in a small community outside a moderately-sized city. Approximately 400 students attended my high school. Only one black family with school-aged children lived in the school district. All the students were conscious that they were black, that they were different ... though we also knew that they were middle class and thus different than many of the black people that lived in the nearby city. (So, this is where I say that I beleive you are absolutely correct in looking at socio-economic factors rather than boiling everything down to race.) The kids in that family were a few years ahead of me in school, so I did not really interact with them, but they were popular enough with their peers (not at the pinnacle of popularity, but certainly not excluded).
What I find more curious (over the last few years as my cultural awareness has increased; I never thought about it at the time) was the reaction to the one Indian (subcontinent, not American) and one Latino family in our school district. The youngest Jha daughter and the oldest Garcia daughter were both in my class. They were both extremely popular. They were both Anglicized in the minds of their peers. We considered them to be white. After all, they obviously weren't black like the Worthey family. I wonder if we would have felt the same way if more Latino or Indian families had lived in the school district, causing us (rightly or wrongly) to look at them as a group rather than interacting with them as individuals.
Part of the reason that I wonder this is because in my rural community many people, many of my high school peers included, held some of the most blatant and stereotypical "trailer park" racist ideas and often verbalized them. They were not exposed to people unlike them on a daily basis, except for a few students that they chose to whitewash into being WASPs (along with the few Jews who lived in the community). As much as I would like to hope that dealing with people as individuals will break down the racial divides, I doubt that my high school experience allowed that to happen for many people ... simply because they did not have enough exposure to cultural diversity to even realize that the individuals they knew were made up of various component parts, including their racial/ethnic identity. I believe that race is constructed; my peers simply opted not to construct it in these cases.
I agree that the Bible was not meant to be taken literally. Many Christians share that belief --- and not just because a dozen or so verses seem to be "inconvenient." Some reasons are based in historical analysis; others boil down to the responses that your husband gave in the current abortion thread over at that other place when he talked about his minister father's own theological research.
Quick (snide) message for Carey: I don't understand why your scientist friends don't believe in God. Isn't the fact that science works at all sufficient proof that it must have been created by God? Start teaching ID in the schools now!
At the time it was "written", I think the bible was totally meant to be taken literally.
And by "written" I mean the Old Testament oral tradition stuff (later written down), and the Christian New Testaments.
They were totally literal at the time. Only now we have to see them as allegory or whatever.
I think I've said this before but here goes. I was raised in a small S Ohio town. My dad, recent of WWII, was a quiet stong opinioned man. My mother was, at that time, I think growing in her beliefs. The most memorable conversation at the dinner table was during the "sit-ins" at our city pool. The black community wasn't allowed to enter the pool. Once the city allowed blacks entrance all my friends were like "ick, they will cause disease". I asked my parents who both boo-hoed that. My dad talked about selling insurance in the 'ville (the black segregated part of town). He said that the blacks were nicer and cleaner than a lot of the white trash in town. My mom said that the fears of the elite were unsubstantiated. So I was the first of my group to jump in the water.
I also remember being very intrigued by the blacks in middle school. There were no blacks in my elementary school. In later middle school and early high school we created a youth group dedicated to better understanding between races and educating the masses.
However, when I dated (well not really because in S. Ohio in the late 60's you hid the relationship) a black co-student my dad went into a rage that I didn't understand seeing how i was raised. That was my first experience with bigotry.
Then in High School as I railed against injustice my mom said, "If you think the discrimination against blacks is bad you should see the discrimination of the Jews". I didn't understand that until years later.
On a side note my mom turned me on to Janis Joplin. She bought her album and was reading her biography. That is a fun memory!
Like in my post, while I'm tolerant of others views to an extent that they aren't closed minded about rights. I just can't break bread with a racist. We have no morality in common.
Of course we read your comments Kim. I enjoyed them and like how the diverse backgrounds blend into an understanding and realization that hatred is wrong.
Thank you, everyone, for being so open and frank about your upbringings. I think it's really important to reflect on this occassionally. Like I said, if nothing else, it helps to see where others might be coming from.
Swami, interestingly enough, there was an article in our Saturday newspaper about a researcher that contends earlier cultures didn't necessarily take the bible literally, but understood it in a different context. The researcher contends the Bible was taken in much the same light as the statue of Lincoln physically breaking a slaves chains was taken. Interesting story:
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=wsj:2006:02:25:545486:DAYBREAK
I read too. Very interesting. I was going to post my own here in response, but I think I might just save it for my own blog.
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